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Forums / Zelda rant, spoiler free

vip
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haha, my livejournal strikes again (sorry Bob!)

*sigh* Okay, so if you read around the internets for Zelda impressions like I do, you might have noticed a particular trend among people that Twilight Princess "sucks" or that the graphics are horrible.

I see what they mean, I do not agree.

Complain #1: "The beginning is slow and boring (first two hours), Link's ass looks like Oprah's"

Well holee shit, lemme guess who this is coming from (aside from Luke Smith at 1up) This person has played all Zelda games ever and goddamn right he doesn't need a fucking tutorial. How dare they!!! True, the beginning of Twilight is slow because hey, heres the Wii, a new system aimed at a new generation pf players and at people who haven't played games before. Do you think they need a dose of tutorials? Well, yeah you fucktard. Matter of fact, so do you cause if you hadn't noticed, its got motion controls in and last time I checked that was a new thing in the industry. If you're a Zelda fan, you'll skim trough the tuts in no time and move on to the real game, which is about 70 hours ... but fuck that, lets base our judgment of the game on the fucking tutorial. Awesome

Complain #2: "The graphics suck! WTF is this, the Game Cube? Resident Evil 4 and Wind Waker looked better"

The rebuttal to this has several factors. One, the person who complains wouldn't understand art direction if it hit him in the face with it and probably thinks of Halo and WW II games as pieces of fine literature. No game will ever look better or worse than Wind Waker for a simple reason: Those graphics were tailor made for that game. The graphics in Twilight are not worse, but rather they demand different things from the hardware ... actually scratch that. Twilight demands a vast amount of effort from all parts of the machine: the texture memory, the draw distance, the polycount, etc, etc.

Wind Waker however, required less texture space and could afford to put more into the draw distance and modeling ends, which is why you have vast nothingness (the sea) and then very intricate towns/dungeons. Twilight attempts to have everything going on at the same time (traveling with your horse across a full view of Hyrule, way bigger than the world in Wind Waker, etc). Hopefully you see what I mean. The comparison with RE 4 fails as well because the games have a different focus, RE 4 is slower and has less going on at the same time, hence allowing the game to have more detail.

Another obvious comment is the breathtaking art direction this game has. What makes graphics better? Awesome shaders and real time hair simulations or a variety and richness of colors, designs and compositions that are new, original and inspirational? I would take Zelda with less polygons than Halo or Gears of War any day of the week. Mostly because you don't need more polygons in order for a game to be beautiful. I mean hell, in my opinion the most beautiful games of the year were Okami, Shadow of the Colossus, Final Fantasy XII and Twilight Princess and none of those were on next gen hardware. Its like they say, you cant polish a turd, people notice.

Last detail to mention on the subject of hraphics is that Twilight is a Game Cube game. It doesn't use the Wii power at all and you may ask "but why not add more detail since they took an extra year in order to get the Wii controls working?" Fair question, three words:"different production teams"
In video games, the art team needs to have the graphical assets done waaay before the game is done, so that the engineers can do their job. So what I mean is, the artists finished all their work when the game was still a Game Cube exclusive and were moved on to a different project (most probably Smash Bros., if the rumors are true) Then the engineering team probably got divided, with some of them on new projects and the rest focused entirely on the new control system, adding widescreen and 480p support and of course, giving the localization team plenty of time to do their job (which also takes months of your time) To give you a practical example, on a yearly game like Tiger Woods we need to be done with the art about 3 months before the engineers are done. Twilight took four years to make, so you do the math :)

Complain #3: "Zelda has never evolved. Its always the same shit over and over again in every entry. IE: Its gay"

Another tricky one. This serving of bitchiness usually comes from the Microsoft fans who are blinded by the fact that Halo 2 only added dual wielding and that Halo 3 so far adds ... 3 new weapons. A Zelda game by nature cannot be the same game every time because its own nature changes constantly. Zelda was always a mixture of all the games out there, elevated to the 10th degree. You can fight, explore, talk, fish, fetch, save the girl, have the girl save you, etc. If you make a game that changes all that ... then what the fuck do you have left? Zelda covers pretty much every genre, so bitching about that should be considered more a critique of the state of the industry than the game itself. Lets see, to my knowledge, Twilight adds horseback fighting, motion sensitive controls, a remote aiming system, a world larger than Russia to explore, the more ambitious/adult storyline in a Nintendo game yet and COMPLETELY changes the art style and content from the previous Zelda game... you call that lack of innovation? Shit, as a game artist let me tell you about how much shit gets recycled from older games, you know how many Wind Waker assets they used in Twilight? Lemme guess, NONE. But yeah sure ... its the same crap, whatever. Nevermind the fact that in any FPS what you end up doing is always pointing to a head and shooting it, but since that person in particular likes doing that 328354634384534876 times, then it becomes, OK, totally awesome and acceptable.

Another argument that people use against the originality is that they say thats its the same shit as Ocarina of Time. Well holy fuck I thought that was the whole point! I mean, didn't everyone and their grandma say thats what they wanted when Wind Waker shipped? "WE WANT MORE OF THE SAME" they yelled out loud, and lo and behold that Nintendo actually fucking listens for once and makes the evolution and perfection of Ocarina of Time and, what do people do? Bitch. Of course this comes as no surprise, already I hear complaints about how people want Kid Link back and thats OK, its human nature to wish for what you dont have. I understand that gamers are shallow people, if the art budget for Twilight was the same as Gears of War and Link had 50,000,000 polygons on his left butt cheek alone, shiny skin, shiny clothes, shiny pubes and more strands of hair than any TV can handle the hardcore audience would have proclaimed the second coming of Jesus, Miyamoto (who didnt do anything in the game, btw), Gandhi and whatnot. I comprehend it, but it still makes me bitter because people don't understand how hard artists and engineers work to push the limits of the hardware just to hear some prepubescent asshole proclaim that "the graphix sux lol"

But to finish this crap, if somebody comes up and says he hates the game cause he doesn't have fun. Then awesome, I can totally respect that. The problem is that in games everybody finally became a critic. Your opinion is the best and anyone who doesn't agree is a stupid fuck fuck. This editorial made a really excellent point when mentioning that game reviews are on the way out ... because the person who reads them doesn't want advice whether he/she should buy "x" game or not. All they want to hear is whether the press agrees with him (awesome!), or does not (OMG LOL THEY SUK)

Alright, I'm done venting. Whats up?

Last edited by Xavi on November 19, 2006

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Dude, chill out, you're acting like the Zelda fanboys in the editorial you linked. The editorial itself isn't saying that reviews are out, it is saying that the reactions and rants, like yours are uncalled for. All reviews are opinion-based, it is like that for everything from movies, music, book, plays etc. Just because you do not agree with it, does not mean you have to go on a rant against the reviewer, that is pretty low by any standards to attack someone on their opinions, especially in this case when not many people have actually played the game and are creating arguments from unsubstantiated information and self-contrived opinion. Reminds me a bit of the Sony hype for Killzone, when Sony fanboys kept attacking Halo fans before and even after it came out with claims on how awesome it is, when it actually fact it was mediocre at best and plagued with problems.

Like you said, everyone is a critic and people who disagree are stupid fucks, which is exactly what is happening with all the fanboys beating up on bad reviews and is in a way, what your rant is doing. Complaining about it won't lead to anything. If you don't like it, respect the other guy's opinion and go make your own opinion. Because, you know, Twilight Princess might suck or after playing it through you might find yourself hating it. I myself hated FFX, yet I do understand and respect others' opinions on it. The whole problem is typically American, just the urge to express your own opinion and not listen to anyone else's.

TRS, if you don't like the current trend of game reviews, try out new games journalism, that shit rocks.

Last edited by Quale on November 20, 2006

vip
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Dude, Quale; you're a tool. This is Xavi's soap-box, if you are going to try and burn someone, don't hide behind a bunch of hypocritical bullshit; just do it. I hope your face gets mauled by a class of rabid eight-graders, and then someone twists your testicles so you get paralysed from the waist down.

Xavi, thanks for writing that, I enjoy your rants as always(we're not gay together I swear) and considering at work I'm surronded by pretentious PS3 and 360 addicts, I've been waiting to be forced to defend the new Zelda(even if it's just to provide the opposite side's arguments.). So odd to see people bash on Nintendo having not played even the gamecube, when they still cherish their SNES(maybe it's just these friends of mine.).
So yeah, thanks, I can't wait to start the Wii/360/PS3 battle again. And this time maybe I can turn their hearts a little(instead of punching them in the neck untill they agree with me.)
But chyeah.
To the Quale-age: Get Laid or Die Trying, Peon.

p.s. Only for November the 20th....
http://americanelf.com/

Last edited by Bob on November 20, 2006

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Go fuck yourself Bob, I wasn't try to burn him, I was trying to state a fact while linking to the editorial. Whining about stuff doesn't do anything. If you have failed to notice, the common interweb view is to defend the new Zelda. The rant is pretty much just the same as everyone else's. Check the links in the editorial TRS posted. Hell, try reading the editorial, I just pretty much repeated what it said.

And hypocritical bullshit, what the fuck are you on, I"M NOT A HYPOCRITE, YOUR A HYPOCRITE, OMG BURN! Try reading next time, WAIT, YOU DON"T READ BEFORE SAYING THINGS?! NEXT TIME TRY READING, R-E-A-D-I-N-G. It might help your inability to say anything that is pure fluff.

Last edited by Quale on November 20, 2006

vip
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Mebbe it wasn't in the exact, Greek-origin, Latin-bastardization of the word, more the loose you're an idiot and shouldn't be allowed to breed kinda way.
Quale said:
Dude, chill out, you're acting like the Zelda fanboys in the editorial you linked. it is saying that the reactions and rants, like yours are uncalled for. All reviews are opinion-based, it is like that for everything from movies, music, book, plays etc. Just because you do not agree with it, does not mean you have to go on a rant against the reviewer, that is pretty low by any standards to attack someone on their opinions, especially in this case when not many people have actually played the game and are creating arguments from unsubstantiated information and self-contrived opinion.

Like you said, everyone is a critic and people who disagree are stupid fucks, which is exactly what is happening with all the fanboys beating up on bad reviews and is in a way, what your rant is doing. Complaining about it won't lead to anything. If you don't like it, respect the other guy's opinion and go make your own opinion. Because, you know, Twilight Princess might suck or after playing it through you might find yourself hating it. I myself hated FFX, yet I do understand and respect others' opinions on it. The whole problem is typically American, just the urge to express your own opinion and not listen to anyone else's.

I waded thru your bullshit and left all the hypocritical stuff. The following was pretty funny too.
Quale said:
And hypocritical bullshit, what the fuck are you on, I"M NOT A HYPOCRITE, YOUR A HYPOCRITE, OMG BURN! Try reading next time, WAIT, YOU DON"T READ BEFORE SAYING THINGS?! NEXT TIME TRY READING, R-E-A-D-I-N-G. It might help your inability to say anything that is pure fluff.

I read, and I read, and I DEMAND all that time back you sob, goddamnit give me that time back!
P.S. I play a lil' killzone, and going to Halo(the only time I play Halo) parties I have to have the sensitivity on 9, and for some reason I winwinwin!? Huh... Also, FFX was ridiculous fun, beauty in pixel form and without spoilers/and or ffVII fanboy ranting and hating the story was powerful and engaging. Kinda like your mom. O-M-G B-U-R-N I C-A-N S-P-E-L-L O-U-T W-O-R-D-S W-I-T-H H-Y-P-H-E-N-S I A-M S-O S-M-R-T!

Last edited by Bob on November 20, 2006

pixel
Wait that shit didn't make sense. IT DIDN'T MAKE ANY SENSE! WHHEEEEE! I SEE NOTHING IN YOUR POST! You my friend are a pufferfish, you are nothing but a fat load of hot air! AIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIR, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG! YAY I'M AWSOME! GO DIE! DIE LIKE THE WASTE OF SPACE YOU ARE! diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee LOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Srsly though, your above post adds nothing to anything. N-O-T-H-I-N-G. Like your mom. PHAIL
vip
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Quale, you're not getting the point. I make games, I know how they're made and the whole process that goes with it, the people that have THOSE complains about Zelda are people that are not in the industry and therefore DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.

So, I guess my "rant" should be reclassified as a lecture really. Cause Im merely informing how this shit actually works and how their rushed conclusions are very off base
vip
pixel
So how does the Wii incorporate the motion sensing, what with the X, Y, Z axis(or wtfevah)? Will I be able to pull off a right cross, followed by a wrap around an enemy's defense to stab 'em in the side, whilst throwing my shield-arm behind my back ala Troy to block any attacks coming at my rear? Cause if that's the case; SWOON.
P.S. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings all the time Quale; you're a nub-stain and have yet to provide any good to well... Anything? So sorry.

Last edited by Bob on November 21, 2006

pixel
Hurt my feelings awww, isn't that cute. I actually find your comments amusing because they are pretty much nothing wrapped in an easily disposable package. Also, underhanded snipe wrapped in an earnest package? That's nice that really differentiates you from the bitchy, angsty 13 year olds that are all over the interweb. You have to lay off the self-importance though, it is starting to wear thin. Remember it's the intraweb, the size of your e-penis does not translate to the size of it in real life.

Baaaaaack on topin, from what I read in several of the reviews and from people who have the game, the control system is pretty much just a tacked on feature. Then again, I would be sounding like one of the naysayers that haven't played the game so I will shut up.

TRS, I do see your point but it still sounding extremely scathing and emotional, much like a whiny rant. I guess that is the way you are but I still say, lay off the angry stuff, it muddles up your points and doesn't add to your professional view but makes it seem more fanboyish. What you said was perfectly valid, there was some great stuff in there but I have to ask, where are all these anti-Zelda impressions you talk off? Most places I've been are loving it and all the reviews have been awesome, except for the "one". I would like to see these complainers.
vip
pixel
Joystick, Gamespot, various forum posts and Gabe from Penny Arcade was talking about the graphics some. Some people at work too.

Fanboyish? I don't think so, I didn't even like Ocarina all that much, for my own reasons. Hell, matter of fact the first Zelda game I beat was Wind Waker but I still appreciate what the series does and signifies. Oh and yes, I have an opinion and I don't talk like a robot :) (should ave seen me talking shit to an EA executive today, hahaha, fun times)

<3 to Bob
pixel
Ahhh... Joystiq and Gamespot, therein your problem lies... ughh, I stay away from those places like a plague on fear of losing IQ points. The reason I did see it slightly fanboyish is that coming off all the crap that surrounded the GS review, everything you said sounded the same as all the fanboys. You've got credentials, use them man! You don't have to put emotion or even swear when you want to get a point about games over to a simple fan, just splurt out some technical crap and end it with "I work in the games industry" and you will win everytime.

I also hope you ripped the crap out of that EA executive. Especially if he was from EALA.

Also, New Games Journalism, check it out, you will love that stuff.

Last edited by Quale on November 21, 2006

vip
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Not really, cause my argument was to contradict stupid arguments that came from people who didn't know wtf they were talking about. So, keeping that in mind, the source does not matter.
vip
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I have this preordered for game cube because I can't afford a WII and now I can't even afford to go pick up the damn game. fuck.
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