Yeah. These people need to be strapped to a chair and forced to play Ico. If, after that, they can say that video games aren't art, they need to be shot. In the knees. Many times.

Ah the stupidity, I'm glad I live in a country governed by a government that wants to sap the life out of universities and make me pay more on a constant basis.

You know, I'm getting really sick and tired of government agencies thinking it's alright to censor American media.
Sen. Demuzio's quote was very similar to a case near where I live where a comic shop was busted for carrying Hentai. In a back room, clearly seperated, with "ONLY OVER 18 PERMITTED" plastered real big over the door, noone under 18 allowed in the room.
The CBLDF (Comic Book Legal Defense Fund) flew in Scott McCloud, an expert on the evolution of the comic strip and book as an American art form, as well as an expert on Japanese culture, and a few others to help with the defense if I remember correctly.
They made a very convincing case, but I kid you not, after the votes were in, the judges final statement (though not worded exactly like this) was "I don't care what you might have heard to the contrary, we all know that comics are for kids."
Ms. Demuzio not only has probably never had anything but proverbial Grima Wormtongues in her ear as far as video game experience goes, but her statement is, when taken into consideration, completely ludicrous, and not just in the way that 'video games are TOO art!'.
Saying that video games are 'not art or media, but simply simulations' is akin to saying that the Mona Lisa was merely a portrait of a woman.
All of the things we consider art forms today were not always looked upon that way. Film, when first invented, was considered nothing more than a novelty. But if you can honestly walk up to me today and say that Citizen Kane, or Casablanca, or even newer films like The Matrix or LotR, are merely 'novelties', I sincerely hope that there is still hope left for you. Video Games, though, just like all modern art forms, are not ALL art. Just as most people would not consider Independence Day or Armaggeddon art, most people would not consider Ratchet and Clank: Up your Arsenal or Pokemon art. But I think we can all agree on FF7, Ico, Super Mario Bros., and all the others that truly deserve more than what sen. Demuzio, as well as too many others like her in the world, would wish for them.

what really p.o. s me is that the only ones that complain are the parents that won't let their seventeen year old watch a rated g movie without them watching it. READ MY LIPS SENATORS:"IT SHOULD BE UP TO THE PARENTS, NOT THE GOVERNMENT, WHO DECIDES WHAT KIDS OR TEENS PLAY!!! IF YOU DON'T LIKE RATED-M GAMES, OR GAMES IN GENERAL, THEN STOP YOUR CHILDRED, NOT OTHERS!!!!!!! YOU ARE PISSING THE CRAP OUT OF NOT JUST ME!!!" :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

(sorry if that seemed a little to violent staff members, just trying to show true emotion) :D

I'd love for these fools to see the figures of manga in Japan.

"Manga books and magazines comprise some 40 percent of pulications in Japan..."

Don't get me started on 'comics and cartoons are for kids', this western thinking really pisses me off. Then there's that fucking massive academic piece I found the other day,
"'You Need Love and Friendship For This Mission!': Final Fantasy VI, VII and VIII in generic and social context"
Now THAT was a sight to be seen. Yes, the censorship may be going to far, although the only recent problem that comes to mind here in Australia was the whole Harry Potter 3 thing, it got rated M15+ and was then appealed and brought down to PG.

Oh, and the whole GTA/Manhunter thing. GTA being censored and the original version is now banned. Manhunter is actually illegal in this country now, it was banned too, but completely.

That's kinda sad about GTA being censored...or anything for that matter. The people should be able to decide what they can and cannot play/see...not the government.

And as for Manhunt...well...it's not like they banned a good game, in fact, they are saving the Australian people money.

Well I played it and thought it was 'meh' as most games are. But yes, here in Australia we don't have an R18+ rating for games, meaning the maximum restriction is for 15+. Hence the lack of 'adult games' not that I mind, most would probably just be porno, but yes, therefore the market here for that stuff is very restricted.

One of the biggest themes here in the US is freedom. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of press, freedom of peaceable protest, etc., etc.
Ms. Demuzio (and others, as I've already pointed out. I'm not meaning to single her out.) has tried to circumvent this by stating that they are, in fact, not even worthy to be applied unto those freedoms. The same people that support this ban are no doubt the same ones trying to ban smoking in films.
Another thing I love about western thinking: So many parents (and just adults in general) are perfectly fine with, say, the shower scene in Psycho, but not the shower scene in Starship Troopers. When I was walking out of starship troopers, my dad started in about how utterly unnecesary many of the particularly gory scenes in that movie were. 'Just how many times do we need to see someone's brains get splattered' was what I heard from that, but one of the people we were with pipes off, 'oh, yes, that shower scene was completely unnecessary!'
Now, for those of you who haven't seen the film, (be glad!) there is a scene where men and women shower together, and it makes the point that in this particular vision of the future, the gender barrier has been broken in the military.
Most parents these days would much rather their children see Hannibal or Gladiator than Hitch or Alfie.
You're born naked. You're not born knowing how to put someone's brains on the sidewalk. End of story.

I think that views on the government sticking their nose in our business is a can that should never be reopened. :angry:

Shadow said:
I think that views on the government sticking their nose in our business is a can that should never be reopened. :angry:

Are you fraking crazy? When the government and lawmakers begin defining what is and isn't art...the people should be raising hell.

Indubitably. RALLY IN THE STREETS!...........or not.

It's even worse here on the topic of games, because it's a smaller market here than I imagine it is in the United States, people don't like it. They feel that playing the game is worse than seeing similar violence on a movie. Fair enough, but to go further and suggest it will encite violence in people? It just prooves that people are already fucked up before they play the game. I've played GTA, and had there been that famous 'hooker scene' that was banned here, I wouldn't have gone out and grabed myself one because I thought it would give me health or whatever.

Well, but see, Nephtis, you're a minority. Most kids, if they play D&D, will be so impressioned by it, that they'll go down underneath their school and try to live it out and get themselves killed...because so many have done shit like that in the past....

Yeah, those kinds of people also believe they can fight a level 50 dragon with their elite weapons and strength stats too...

I'm one of the majority of people who have played Dungeons & Dragons without losing my life and/or limbs. I began playing the game when I was a kid, I did nothing stupid to put my life in danger... and I don't see where people get off blaming RPG's and VIDEO games for the problems in society... (Sorry, if I've bounced back off topic/on topic... but I just wanted to say my peace regarding D&D) :lol:

The anti-D&D movement was greatly aided by Jack Chick and of course, Rona Jaffe's Mazes and Monsters.

The way I (and most people capable of thought) see it, if you're having delusions and actually think you're an 8th level Elven Sorceror, you shouldn't be playing so much as you should be in a well monitored padded room.

It's sad that in our society a few isolated incidents can ruin something for everyone who plays responsibly.

Yes, someone always manages to ruin things for everyone else.

Methusalen said:
I'm one of the majority of people who have played Dungeons & Dragons without losing my life and/or limbs. I began playing the game when I was a kid, I did nothing stupid to put my life in danger... and I don't see where people get off blaming RPG's and VIDEO games for the problems in society...  (Sorry, if I've bounced back off topic/on topic... but I just wanted to say my peace regarding D&D) :lol:

It's the sad truth that the government is far less about actually aiding problems than it is to save face by creating scapegoats. Seriously...do you expect me (or any forward thinking person above 80 IQ) to believe that our lack of gun control is less of a cause of violence than someone playing a game?

Well, it'd definately help, gun control and harsher punishments for breaking the law (and what's this crap about Probation and getting off early for "good behavior"? Get rid of that... if someone's supposed to serve 20 years... MAKE THEM SERVE 20 YEARS!)

So, yeah... I agree... but then again, if a law abiding citizen wants to own a rifle to go hunting, I'm not against that... pistols on the other hand I don't see a good use for (sans miltary & police use anyways)...

Mind you, I'm also one of the guys that think guns are cool, as long as you're using them at a designated range... :lol:

What about the books that are banned by the government? There are so many that are listed as 'too controversial' when really, it's just that it's putting something in a different light, and it's making them uncomfortable. Where in Europe and other continents, so many books are banned and we know about it (come on, we're not native to those countries, so it's okay for us to know), what about the books that are banned from OUR viewing? There are so many things I would love to read, yet can't because of the censorship they've imparted. And when it comes to most literature, it's almost never a question of whether it's an artform, or not.

Like what? There's not that many books I can think of that are outright illegal here in the 'States. But then again, I am very tired, and can't think.

There are books that are looked down upon, like the Anarchist's Cookbook., but it's not illegal.

Even The Turner Diaries is legal, even though it was written by a white supremist, and is a detailed blueprint on how to revolt against this country, since it is supposedly run by the Jews, and was the catalyst behind the Oklahoma City bombing.

Politicians run on popularity. If a lot of people say 'we don't like this, so get rid of it' (which implies, 'we won't like you anymore,' further saying 'screw your ballot box!') they try to get it done. I kept looking for a book called 'Black Boy, Bo' but it's been written off as too controversial.

I'm sorry. I need sleep..........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Seems pretty obscure, since it didn't even pop up in a google search. Everything pops up in google.

Two words: Mein Kampf.

And that is exactly why politicians need to be good with their words. Look at how far Hitler got, despite his ideas of mass genocide? He was wildly popular for the ideas of the future he could promise.

That, and who couldn't love a watermelon-eating fascist? ;) (There's enough of you old fogies here to recognize that)

I've still yet to read Mein Kampf. I may have just found a new book to read. I wonder what e-bay will say.....

Sorry what? "Old fogies"? I take offense!

Well, I could have written 'musty dinoswar's', but it would have distracted everyone from clipping their ear hairs at my grammatical expense :P

What the fuck is a "dinoswar".

I found Mein Kampf to be pretty bland.